Hi,

This is amazing.

http://www.aopa.org/aircraft/articles/2013/130110secret-no-fly-zone.html?WT.mc_id=130111epilot&WT.mc_sect=gan

Paul Remde

"Paul Remde" > wrote:
> Hi,
>
> This is amazing.
>
> http://www.aopa.org/aircraft/articles/2013/130110secret-no-fly-zone.html?WT.mc_id=130111epilot&WT.mc_sect=gan
>
> Paul Remde

Wow this is utterly ridiculous. I wish he hadn't agreed to not go after the
local cops for being such morons.

Pete

I just read the article. Its pretty scary to know that those charged with enforcing the laws can be so ignorant of them. An initial misunderstanding is forgivable (I guess)but to be locked up overnight is not. I was a cop for 25 years and its unbelievable that someone didn't step up and say "Its obvious this guy is not a terrorist. What are we doing here?" I don't think I'd be as understanding as the glider pilot and I'd certainly wouldn't agree to not sue, even if its unlikely I'd ever recover anything. Make 'em sweat, at least. I'd definitely want to know who authorized that charges be filed and seek a public apology.

At 13:47 11 January 2013, Peter von Tresckow wrote:
>"Paul Remde" wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> This is amazing.
>>
>>
>http://www.aopa.org/aircraft/articles/2013/130110secret-no-fly-zone.html?WT.mc_id=130111epilot&WT.mc_sect=gan
>>
>> Paul Remde
>
>Wow this is utterly ridiculous. I wish he hadn't agreed to not go after
the
>local cops for being such morons.
>
>Pete
>

I thought the default response was to sue them?

Poor chap.

Shaun

Wow. The pilot NEVER should have signed away his right to sue. The government only understands the stick, and loosing money in a load public announcement of their incompetence.

On Friday, January 11, 2013 7:56:40 AM UTC-5, Paul Remde wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
>
> This is amazing.
>
>
>
> http://www.aopa.org/aircraft/articles/2013/130110secret-no-fly-zone.html?WT.mc_id=130111epilot&WT.mc_sect=gan
>
>
>
> Paul Remde

It's total madness.

T8

The helicopter pilot for the Sheriff's department even showed up and pointed out that there was no violation.

"Griffin said that pilots from the Chesterfield County Sheriff flew the department’s helicopter to the airport, but left when they found out what was going on. “They pulled out a chart and they said, ‘Look here, … nothing in this chart says you cannot fly over the nuclear plant,’” she said. “’Nothing.’”

The whole thing reminds me of "The Dukes of Hazzard" TV Show. No offense intended to the South because this could have happened anywhere in the country.

On Friday, January 11, 2013 8:50:32 AM UTC-6, son_of_flubber wrote:
> The helicopter pilot for the Sheriff's department even showed up and pointed out that there was no violation.
>
>
>
> "Griffin said that pilots from the Chesterfield County Sheriff flew the department’s helicopter to the airport, but left when they found out what was going on. “They pulled out a chart and they said, ‘Look here, … nothing in this chart says you cannot fly over the nuclear plant,’” she said. “’Nothing.’”
>
>
>
> The whole thing reminds me of "The Dukes of Hazzard" TV Show. No offense intended to the South because this could have happened anywhere in the country.

Makes me want to listen again to Arlo Guthrie and "Alice's Restaurant". His description of rural cops seems to be still spot-on, even after all these years.
Here's an excerpt:
After speaking to Obie for about fourty-five minutes on the telephone we
finally arrived at the truth of the matter and said that we had to go down
and pick up the garbage, and also had to go down and speak to him at the
police officer's station. So we got in the red VW microbus with the
shovels and rakes and implements of destruction and headed on toward the
police officer's station.

Now friends, there was only one or two things that Obie coulda done at
the police station, and the first was he could have given us a medal for
being so brave and honest on the telephone, which wasn't very likely, and
we didn't expect it, and the other thing was he could have bawled us out
and told us never to be see driving garbage around the vicinity again,
which is what we expected, but when we got to the police officer's station
there was a third possibility that we hadn't even counted upon, and we was
both immediately arrested. Handcuffed. And I said "Obie, I don't think I
can pick up the garbage with these handcuffs on." He said, "Shut up, kid.
Get in the back of the patrol car."

And that's what we did, sat in the back of the patrol car and drove to the
quote Scene of the Crime unquote. I want tell you about the town of
Stockbridge, Massachusets, where this happened here, they got three stop
signs, two police officers, and one police car, but when we got to the
Scene of the Crime there was five police officers and three police cars,
being the biggest crime of the last fifty years, and everybody wanted to
get in the newspaper story about it. And they was using up all kinds of
cop equipment that they had hanging around the police officer's station.
They was taking plaster tire tracks, foot prints, dog smelling prints, and
they took twenty seven eight-by-ten colour glossy photographs with circles
and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each
one was to be used as evidence against us. Took pictures of the approach,
the getaway, the northwest corner the southwest corner and that's not to
mention the aerial photography.

After the ordeal, we went back to the jail. Obie said he was going to put
us in the cell. Said, "Kid, I'm going to put you in the cell, I want your
wallet and your belt." And I said, "Obie, I can understand you wanting my
wallet so I don't have any money to spend in the cell, but what do you
want my belt for?" And he said, "Kid, we don't want any hangings." I
said, "Obie, did you think I was going to hang myself for littering?"
Obie said he was making sure, and friends Obie was, cause he took out the
toilet seat so I couldn't hit myself over the head and drown, and he took
out the toilet paper so I couldn't bend the bars roll out the - roll the
toilet paper out the window, slide down the roll and have an escape. Obie
was making sure, and it was about four or five hours later that Alice
(remember Alice? It's a song about Alice), Alice came by and with a few
nasty words to Obie on the side, bailed us out of jail, and we went back
to the church, had a another thanksgiving dinner that couldn't be beat,
and didn't get up until the next morning, when we all had to go to court.

So what should I do if I find myself low and needing to fly over a power plant? The cooling tower might trigger a good thermal.

On Friday, January 11, 2013 9:21:35 AM UTC-6, son_of_flubber wrote:
> So what should I do if I find myself low and needing to fly over a power plant? The cooling tower might trigger a good thermal.

turn off your radio

On Friday, January 11, 2013 10:22:35 AM UTC-5, Tony wrote:
> On Friday, January 11, 2013 9:21:35 AM UTC-6, son_of_flubber wrote:
>
> > So what should I do if I find myself low and needing to fly over a power plant? The cooling tower might trigger a good thermal.
>
>
>
> turn off your radio

No, that's the scary part. DHS was intending to use deadly force in this
instance. Robin was fortunate that he managed to catch their call on the
unicom frequency. (Personally speaking, I like to switch to the nearby
unicom/multicom frequency if I'm down digging near an airport, in case
there's traffic around. But, there have been times I haven't done that,
or turned the radio down in order to concentrate, or even had an inop
radio!)

We have a nuke plant near where we fly, and near to where I often get
up to final glide at the end of the day. Fortunately, it's surrounded
by forest and lake, and there's a coal plant nearer to the adjoining
airport that all-in-all is a better choice for a thermal (except for
the smell).

Matt

On Friday, January 11, 2013 10:38:30 AM UTC-5, wrote:

> DHS was intending to use deadly force in this
> instance.

How do you know that? I do not see that in the article.

On 1/11/2013 7:38 AM, wrote:
> DHS was intending to use deadly force in this
> instance.

According to the article, it was one local policeman, not the DHS. It
appeared it was the local officials that were seriously misinformed
about the regulations, and the FAA and DHS had it right.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

On 1/11/2013 6:48 AM, Evan Ludeman wrote:
> On Friday, January 11, 2013 7:56:40 AM UTC-5, Paul Remde wrote:
>> Hi,
>> This is amazing.
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.aopa.org/aircraft/articles/2013/130110secret-no-fly-zone.html?WT.mc_id=130111epilot&WT.mc_sect=gan
>>
>>
Paul Remde
>
> It's total madness.

On the contrary, it appears to me to be "localized madness": the FAA and
DHS were not party to the plant officials' and local police's ignorance
about the airspace rules.

I do wish the pilot had discussed with the officials what they would do
the next time they saw a glider over the plant, before he agreed not to
pursue them legally.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

On 1/11/2013 4:56 AM, Paul Remde wrote:
> Hi,
>
> This is amazing.
>
> http://www.aopa.org/aircraft/articles/2013/130110secret-no-fly-zone.html?WT.mc_id=130111epilot&WT.mc_sect=gan
>
>
> Paul Remde


Gotta love this: "Fleming waited outside the courtroom Aug. 21 as his
case went before the judge. When his attorney returned and said the case
would be dismissed if he agreed not to take any legal action against
Darlington County law enforcement, he said, he reluctantly agreed." In
other words, "we will stop abusing our authority if you don't challenge
our abuse of our authority."

This type of thing probably would never happen in an area where there is
real crime. However, in a low crime area you have "wanna be cops" who
get tired of eating donuts at the coffee shop, and overreact to every
incident.

On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 06:43:54 -0800 (PST), "Sean F (F2)"
> wrote:

>Wow. The pilot NEVER should have signed away his right to sue. The government only understands the stick, and loosing money in a load public announcement of their incompetence.

Well, yes. He could have refused to sign and called his lawyer, but it
would have been a gamble. The lawyer might have taken on his lawsuit
on contingency, but getting acquitted in the first place would have
cost him a load of money up front.

Laws and courts are for those who can afford to pay for them...

On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 09:36:52 -0800, Greg Arnold >
wrote:

[snip]

>" In
>other words, "we will stop abusing our authority if you don't challenge
>our abuse of our authority."
>

The word for that is "extortion".

>This type of thing probably would never happen in an area where there is
>real crime. However, in a low crime area you have "wanna be cops" who
>get tired of eating donuts at the coffee shop, and overreact to every
>incident.

Time for Sheriff Andy to take Barney's bullet away.

The last paragraph in the AOPA article has the following:

"Although the breach of peace arrest warrant that was ultimately filed
refers to a 'No Fly Zone' neither the federal nor local authorities could
cite a federal violation because this was not a 'No Fly Zone.'"

Now I ain't no lawyer, but I've seen them on TV, and it looks to me, based
on the above, that the warrant was not valid and, thus, the charges were not
valid and, therefore, would be dropped without any agreements from the
pilot.

I wasn't there and don't know what he went through, but my gut says, "Sue
the *******s!"

Also, I will not comply with any local law enforcement demands that I land.
I will, of course, comply with the FAA or a military interceptor...


"Greg Arnold" > wrote in message
...
> On 1/11/2013 4:56 AM, Paul Remde wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> This is amazing.
>>
>> http://www.aopa.org/aircraft/articles/2013/130110secret-no-fly-zone.html?WT.mc_id=130111epilot&WT.mc_sect=gan
>>
>>
>> Paul Remde
>
>
> Gotta love this: "Fleming waited outside the courtroom Aug. 21 as his
> case went before the judge. When his attorney returned and said the case
> would be dismissed if he agreed not to take any legal action against
> Darlington County law enforcement, he said, he reluctantly agreed." In
> other words, "we will stop abusing our authority if you don't challenge
> our abuse of our authority."
>
> This type of thing probably would never happen in an area where there is
> real crime. However, in a low crime area you have "wanna be cops" who get
> tired of eating donuts at the coffee shop, and overreact to every
> incident.
>

Following up on the AOPA article linked to by the OP this morning, here's the original Sep 2001 FAA notice about flight near nuclear plants:
http://www.ssa.org/myhome.asp?mbr=6789819598&show=blog&id=336
Note that you cannot "CIRCLE AS TO LOITER IN THE VICINITY" of nuclear plants, etc.

And here's the clarification that the SSA got in Mar 2002 from "FAA Air Traffic" regarding the "no loitering" rule:
http://www.ssa.org/myhome.asp?mbr=6789819598&show=blog&id=370&archive=3/1/2002

Apparently there isn't anything written from "FAA Air Traffic" to the SSA on this subject. I'm also not sure that the toll free number the SSA set up in 2002 still works.

-John, Q3

On Friday, January 11, 2013 12:00:23 PM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:
> On Friday, January 11, 2013 10:38:30 AM UTC-5, wrote:
>
>
>
> > DHS was intending to use deadly force in this
>
> > instance.
>
>
>
> How do you know that? I do not see that in the article.

Because I talked to Robin after the incident. There's reference to it
in the article. Fortunately they asked the helicopter guys to do it,
who knew better.

Matt

It's too easy to write this off as one isolated incident involving one overzealous sheriff.

On 1/11/2013 5:56 AM, Paul Remde wrote:
> Hi,
>
> This is amazing.
>
> http://www.aopa.org/aircraft/articles/2013/130110secret-no-fly-zone.html?WT.mc_id=130111epilot&WT.mc_sect=gan
>
> Paul Remde

When ignorance, over-zealousness and incompetence are combined with the power
of the state (at any level[s]), the outcome is generally abusive of such
trivial concepts as "freedom", "personal responsibility" and "accountability".
Joe Public tends on average to lose the former, while Joe Bureaucrat generally
manages to avoid the latter pair.

In the "I feel Robin's pain" sense...BTDT over the past 8 months on 2
unrelated (save jurisdictionally) cases...expensive fun. And by "fun" I mean
"real pain"...at many levels.

Bob - government meeting your expectations can be lots worse than it not - W.

P.S. Please note there's no hint of political affiliation or bent in the above
post. It is NOT intended as political. It IS intended as dispassionate,
observational, personal-experience-based, food for thought...

> Makes me want to listen again to Arlo Guthrie and "Alice's
> Restaurant". His description of rural cops seems to be still
> spot-on, even after all these years...

However, it bears remembering that Officer Obie later became one of
Arlo's better friends. He had enough of a sense of humor, or at least
perspective, to play himself in the 1969 movie _Alice's Restaurant_.

I somehow doubt we'd see those sensibilities in the officers of the
Darlington County Sheriff’s Office.

On 1/11/2013 10:35 AM, wrote:
> On Friday, January 11, 2013 12:00:23 PM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:
>> On Friday, January 11, 2013 10:38:30 AM UTC-5, wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> DHS was intending to use deadly force in this
>>
>>> instance.
>>
>>
>>
>> How do you know that? I do not see that in the article.
>
> Because I talked to Robin after the incident. There's reference to it
> in the article. Fortunately they asked the helicopter guys to do it,
> who knew better.

I don't see any reference to the DHS intending or considering use deadly
force in the article, or asking/requesting the helicopter guys (which
were from the Sheriffs dept) do it. Can you give me the sentence or
paragraph for that?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

This seems to be a perfect cue for glider operations to announce "First Responder Appreciation Day" at the airport. Free glider rides, toy gliders for the kids, barbeque, etc..

We need to cultivate good long term non-confrontational relationships with first-responders. The good guys will keep the loose cannons in check if they understand what the heck we are doing up there in the sky without an engine.

I'd prefer to see a big smile on the deputy's face when an irate farmer calls him/her out to mediate a contentious land out.

Eric,
It is where the woman at the FBO is talking about the cop gone mad. To quote from the article:

"Griffin said she had to tell the officers on the scene to clear out the runway, and one officer talked about commandeering the airport. “He was running around, the one guy that was commandeering everything, saying, ‘We were going to shoot him down,’” she said."

The cop saying "We are going to shoot him down" sounds an awful lot like the plan to use deadly force to me. Right below the last picture in the article on the AOPA website.

Steve

I have it on very good authority that the cooling towers of nuclear power plants provide extremely strong and reliable sources of lift. Generally that lift is downwind of the source and not over the actual cooling tower or associated facilities.
Some important points to consider.
Local authorities have no jurisdiction for the use or control of aircraft operating in US airspace.
Only the FAA or a US military aircraft may request or require you land your aircraft.
There is no such thing as a “No Fly Zone”.
In you are not under arrest, you are free to go and must be released.
If you are under arrest, you must be allowed access to an attorney.
While under arrest you are not required to answer any questions.

On 1/11/2013 1:07 PM, son_of_flubber wrote:
> This seems to be a perfect cue for glider operations to announce
> "First Responder Appreciation Day" at the airport. Free glider
> rides, toy gliders for the kids, barbeque, etc..
>
> We need to cultivate good long term non-confrontational relationships
> with first-responders. The good guys will keep the loose cannons in
> check if they understand what the heck we are doing up there in the
> sky without an engine.
>
> I'd prefer to see a big smile on the deputy's face when an irate
> farmer calls him/her out to mediate a contentious land out.

I like the way you think. Suppose, instead of just agreeing not pursue
legal action, the pilot had every local person involved - plant
operators, managers, police officers, sheriff - agree to come out to the
glider field for a free glider ride as part of the "no legal action"
deal. And tell them their kids can have a free ride, too!

It may not be too late: extend the offer ASAP to as many of the people
as can be reached, maybe get the local paper in on it. Possibly, Bermuda
Soaring could bring the towplane and glider to the airport the glider
pilot landed at, and give the rides there. That might get even more
people out.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

On 1/11/2013 2:14 PM, Steve Leonard wrote:
> Eric, It is where the woman at the FBO is talking about the cop gone
> mad. To quote from the article:
>
> "Griffin said she had to tell the officers on the scene to clear out
> the runway, and one officer talked about commandeering the airport.
> “He was running around, the one guy that was commandeering
> everything, saying, ‘We were going to shoot him down,’” she said."
>
> The cop saying "We are going to shoot him down" sounds an awful lot
> like the plan to use deadly force to me. Right below the last
> picture in the article on the AOPA website.

I saw that, but it did not involve DHS, as I think you suggested, but
only one local cop.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

On Friday, January 11, 2013 4:16:27 PM UTC-8, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> On 1/11/2013 1:07 PM, son_of_flubber wrote:
>
> > This seems to be a perfect cue for glider operations to announce
>
> > "First Responder Appreciation Day" at the airport. Free glider
>
> > rides, toy gliders for the kids, barbeque, etc..
>
> >
>
> > We need to cultivate good long term non-confrontational relationships
>
> > with first-responders. The good guys will keep the loose cannons in
>
> > check if they understand what the heck we are doing up there in the
>
> > sky without an engine.
>
> >
>
> > I'd prefer to see a big smile on the deputy's face when an irate
>
> > farmer calls him/her out to mediate a contentious land out.
>
>
>
> I like the way you think. Suppose, instead of just agreeing not pursue
>
> legal action, the pilot had every local person involved - plant
>
> operators, managers, police officers, sheriff - agree to come out to the
>
> glider field for a free glider ride as part of the "no legal action"
>
> deal. And tell them their kids can have a free ride, too!
>
>
>
> It may not be too late: extend the offer ASAP to as many of the people
>
> as can be reached, maybe get the local paper in on it. Possibly, Bermuda
>
> Soaring could bring the towplane and glider to the airport the glider
>
> pilot landed at, and give the rides there. That might get even more
>
> people out.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
>
> email me)

You kidding, right?
If not, I suggest you ask Robin first if this is what he perceives as reward for putting him in jail.

Ramy

On 1/11/2013 5:35 PM, Ramy wrote:
> On Friday, January 11, 2013 4:16:27 PM UTC-8, Eric Greenwell wrote:
>> On 1/11/2013 1:07 PM, son_of_flubber wrote:
>>
>>> This seems to be a perfect cue for glider operations to announce>>
>>> "First Responder Appreciation Day" at the airport. Free glider>>
>>> rides, toy gliders for the kids, barbeque, etc..
>>
>>>
>>
>>> We need to cultivate good long term non-confrontational
>>> relationships>>
>>> with first-responders. The good guys will keep the loose cannons
>>> in>
>>> check if they understand what the heck we are doing up there in
>>> the>>
>>> sky without an engine.>>
>>>
>>
>>> I'd prefer to see a big smile on the deputy's face when an irate
>>> farmer calls him/her out to mediate a contentious land out.
>>
>>
>>
>> I like the way you think. Suppose, instead of just agreeing not
>> pursue
>> legal action, the pilot had every local person involved - plant
>> operators, managers, police officers, sheriff - agree to come out
>> to the
>> glider field for a free glider ride as part of the "no legal
>> action"
>>
>> deal. And tell them their kids can have a free ride, too!
>>
>> It may not be too late: extend the offer ASAP to as many of the
>> people
>>
>> as can be reached, maybe get the local paper in on it. Possibly,
>> Bermuda
>>
>> Soaring could bring the towplane and glider to the airport the
>> glider
>>
>> pilot landed at, and give the rides there. That might get even
>> more
>>
>> people out.

>
> You kidding, right? If not, I suggest you ask Robin first if this is
> what he perceives as reward for putting him in jail.

I think countering ignorance with education is a good idea. They'd learn
glider pilots are real people with no intent to harm, they'd learn
something about the sport and be less fearful of gliders over the
reactor, and possibly, they or someone they know would be interested
enough to take up the sport. Imagine how differently they might look at
glider pilots if a few kids got rides.

If nothing else, the offer might get them thinking they may have
misjudged the situation.

On the other hand, a counterattack, such as by suing, might confirm (at
least in their minds) they did the right thing, and God help the next
pilot that gets them excited.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

Sure, why not reward them even more.
I wonder if you would think the same after seating in jail sharing a cell with criminals for over 24 hours due to these morons.
I for one hope that the agreement not to sue them has no merit and that Robin will be able to buy himself a nice collection of new motorgliders funded by their pensions and bonuses, to make up for the trauma of spending a day and night in jail.
Sigh!!

Ramy

On Friday, January 11, 2013 11:22:02 PM UTC-5, Ramy wrote:
> I wonder if you would think the same after seating in jail sharing a cell with criminals for over 24 hours due to these morons.
>
> I for one hope that the agreement not to sue them has no merit and that Robin will be able to buy himself a nice collection of new motorgliders funded by their pensions and bonuses, to make up for the trauma of spending a day and night in jail.

I totally sympathize with Robin for his ordeal. I think that he was wise and mature to deescalate the situation.

Bermuda High is in Appalachia. You've heard of the Hatfields and McCoys feud? The Sheriff was wrong, but I imagine that he and all of his buddies are still blaming those rich "glider folk". The sheriff needs to save face. The most dangerous thing in the world is to make a person feel stupid. That never ends well. I'm sure that Bermuda High has already taken steps to mend fences.

My suggestion for "first responder appreciation day" was more directed to other gliding centers where we can make friends and educate before we stumble into a nasty misunderstanding such as this. This incident shows that nuclear power plants are a special case and that some preemptive communication and education is well-advised. People are frightened of what they don't understand. The sheriff panicked.

On 1/11/2013 8:22 PM, Ramy wrote:
> Sure, why not reward them even more. I wonder if you would think the
> same after seating in jail sharing a cell with criminals for over 24
> hours due to these morons. I for one hope that the agreement not to
> sue them has no merit and that Robin will be able to buy himself a
> nice collection of new motorgliders funded by their pensions and
> bonuses, to make up for the trauma of spending a day and night in
> jail. Sigh!!

I'm sure it's hard in the heat of the moment to take the long term view,
and I don't fault the pilot for not doing it. My suggestion is just an
extension of the usual advice for handling a landout: try to make
friends, try to get the farmer to the glider club for a ride.

I think it's a low risk strategy:

-if they are just ignorant, possibly now feeling foolish about
overreacting, an offer like this would calm them and give them the
chance to understand and like us; suing or similar might just make
enemies, which is even worse than ignorance

-if they are genuine a-holes without hope of redemption, they'll still
be a-holes without hope of redemption; suing or similar might make them
more careful the next time, but there's a good chance it would just make
them worse

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

It bears mention that this incident took place on July 26, 2012.

On Friday, January 11, 2013 2:40:10 PM UTC-8, glidergreg wrote:
> I have it on very good authority that the cooling towers of nuclear power plants provide extremely strong and reliable sources of lift. Generally that lift is downwind of the source and not over the actual cooling tower or associated facilities.
>
> Some important points to consider.
>
> Local authorities have no jurisdiction for the use or control of aircraft operating in US airspace.
>
> Only the FAA or a US military aircraft may request or require you land your aircraft.
>
> There is no such thing as a “No Fly Zone”.
>
> In you are not under arrest, you are free to go and must be released.
>
> If you are under arrest, you must be allowed access to an attorney.
>
> While under arrest you are not required to answer any questions.

You may of course be determined to be an "enemy combatant" even if you are a US citizen. In which case you have no rights.

Craig

Here is a copy of a letter I just wrote to Senator Feinstein. I copied Duke Energy, the Darlington County Sheriff’s office and the Darlington News.

On July 26, 2012 a glider pilot in South Carolina was thrown in jail, his personal freedom usurped and his legal rights abused by overzealous authorities who lied and threated him under the false pretense of national security.. I ask for your help in ensuring that those who abused their powers are brought to justice and in trying to avoid such travesties in the future.
The events to which I refer is presented at this web site: http://www.aopa.org/aircraft/articles/2013/130110secret-no-fly-zone.html?WT.mc_id=&wtmcid;&WT.mc_sect=gan&cmp=ePlt:Phto
Security guards at the H.B. Robinson Nuclear Power Plant lied when they said the glider passed over the plant at 100 feet. It was carrying a secure flight recorder which showed he was never lower than 1000 feet above the plant. Recertification of this plant by the nuclear regulatory commission should be withheld until they demonstrate that are not employing guards that are untrustworthy.
The travesty here is that we have people protecting our nuclear plants who are completely unfamiliar with the threat. It will not be a glider which has both limited maneuverability and very limited payload. Nor will it be any light aircraft for that matter. My SUV can carry 10 times the payload of my airplane. The containment building was designed to withstand the impact of an airliner, which weighs a 150 times more and can fly 6 times faster. Please insure the Homeland Security Agency has better trained these people, or limit their funding to the point that they are forced to concentrate on real issues.
A Darlington County Sheriff’s deputy threated to shoot the plane down. That’s a man who should not be carrying a gun or wearing a uniform. Sheriff’s officers also claimed there was a “No fly” zone over the nuclear plant. This too is complete nonsense. Such baseless claims represent an abuse of authority. Please ask the attorney general to look into this further.
Mike Koerner

Get another lawyer and sue the *******s.
At the very least the Sheriff needs to be sacked!





t 13:54 11 January 2013, wrote:
>I just read the article. Its pretty scary to know that those charged with
>e=
>nforcing the laws can be so ignorant of them. An initial misunderstanding
>i=
>s forgivable (I guess)but to be locked up overnight is not. I was a cop
>for=
> 25 years and its unbelievable that someone didn't step up and say "Its
>ob=
>vious this guy is not a terrorist. What are we doing here?" I don't
think
>=
>I'd be as understanding as the glider pilot and I'd certainly wouldn't
>agre=
>e to not sue, even if its unlikely I'd ever recover anything. Make 'em
>swea=
>t, at least. I'd definitely want to know who authorized that charges be
>fil=
>ed and seek a public apology.
>

In article > Ramy > writes:
>Sure, why not reward them even more.
>I wonder if you would think the same after seating in jail sharing a cell with criminals for over 24 hours due to these morons.
>I for one hope that the agreement not to sue them has no merit and that Robin will be able to buy himself a nice collection of new motorgliders funded by their pensions and bonuses, to make up for the trauma of spending a day and night in jail.
>Sigh!!

I'm with Ramy on this. I would wish that some other entity could establish
that they had grounds to sue the local county over this. Perhaps AOPA provided
legal services to the pilot, and therefore has some cost incurred in the matter.
They didn't agree not to sue.

Either that, or demonstrate that the agreement not to sue was coerced through
force or threat of force, and is invalid.

In reality, I expect that neither will happen. Folks will just hope that the
government will not enact even more restrictions on general aviation.

Alan

One must wonder why it took 6 month to go viral on RAS...

Ramy

James Fallows wrote a nice summation of Robin's incident, it's here:
http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/01/annals-of-the-security-state-glider-pilot-edition/267080/

Jim includes part of the relevant sectional chart, showing the plant. If you watch the embedded video from AOPA in his column, you'll see a SeeYou segment of Robin's thermalling across the lake from the reactor. You'll also see aerial shots of the plant itself.

-John, Q3

Apart from the consideration of a law suit, is there a police complaints procedure in the US?

One comment. Folks in this thread are taking the AOPA article as "Gospel". Having personally observed the (at times huge) inaccuracies in reporting Journalism, I would respectfully suggest that we let the SSA's government liaison work on this instead of doing or saying things to officials/people that could make the situation much worse for gliding. Let them research out the facts and take any action that is warranted with the appropriate officials. Yelling at people usually doesn't work well in getting necessary change and that should be the goal here.

Regards,

Craig R.

On Saturday, January 12, 2013 10:54:11 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> Apart from the consideration of a law suit, is there a police complaints procedure in the US?

Filing an official complaint against a rural sheriff could backfire.

I understand that incidents like this are often resolved informally through the "good ol' boys network".

Comic relief... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-f3CFzahrRs

> Filing an official complaint against a rural sheriff could backfire.
>

Sooner or later FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt) always puts in an
appearance...ANY action involving people could backfire.

Count me in the group believing:
- the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior;
- an excellent modifier of future behavior is belief/knowledge that you as an
individual likely WILL be held accountable for societally unacceptable actions
on your part;
- principle matters;
- hope as the sole basis for society is bleakly laughable, given human nature.

Failure to make a serious attempt to hold the overly-full-of-self official(s?)
publicly acting in defiance of laws and publicly advocating illegal use of
(deadly) force - as were both present in this instance - is a proven recipe
for more of the same.

Others have touched upon various - sensible - possible approaches soaring
practitioners might consider applying in the wake of this appalling abuse of
power. More power to everyone on this front; such things should be a routine
part of our soaring-related activities.

But to do so to the exclusion of in some way or ways holding irresponsible
public officials' feet to the fire would be a serious, bad-behavior-enabling,
error.

Given Robin Fleming's dismal post-soaring-flight experience of last summer,
who among us would want to experience anything remotely similar? Why not? A
famous statement of Patrick Henry's comes to my mind...

Bob W.

On Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:06:45 PM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:
> Comic relief... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-f3CFzahrRs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlR8oldn-zY

General Lee auto towing a Blanik

On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 07:28:11 +0000, Tom Claffey >
wrote:

>Get another lawyer and sue the *******s.
>At the very least the Sheriff needs to be sacked!
>
>
IANAL, but I suspect that train has left the station. Given that he
signed a plea bargain, I'd think that any further lawsuit would just
be thrown out.

wrote:
> On Friday, January 11, 2013 8:50:32 AM UTC-6, son_of_flubber wrote:
>> The helicopter pilot for the Sheriff's department even showed up and pointed out that there was no violation.
>>
>>
>>
>> "Griffin said that pilots from the Chesterfield County Sheriff flew the department’s helicopter to the airport, but left when they found out what was going on. “They pulled out a chart and they said, ‘Look here, … nothing in this chart says you cannot fly over the nuclear plant,’” she said. “’Nothing.’”
>>
>>
>>
>> The whole thing reminds me of "The Dukes of Hazzard" TV Show. No offense intended to the South because this could have happened anywhere in the country.
>
> Makes me want to listen again to Arlo Guthrie and "Alice's Restaurant". His description of rural cops seems to be still spot-on, even after all these years.

About 20 years ago a friend from Colorado was driving through
Louisiana when he was stopped by a local policeman. He was
asked for his licence, and as he passed it to the policeman
the policeman said "Now don't go fooling me, boy" -- which
ratehr puzzled him.

Eventually, after leaving the scene, he realised it must
have been because the policeman was illiterate.

We both found that rather frightening.

Get another lawyer and sue the *******s.
At the very least the Sheriff needs to be sacked!





t 13:54 11 January 2013, wrote:
>I just read the article. Its pretty scary to know that those charged with
>e=
>nforcing the laws can be so ignorant of them. An initial misunderstanding
>i=
>s forgivable (I guess)but to be locked up overnight is not. I was a cop
>for=
> 25 years and its unbelievable that someone didn't step up and say "Its
>ob=
>vious this guy is not a terrorist. What are we doing here?" I don't
think
>=
>I'd be as understanding as the glider pilot and I'd certainly wouldn't
>agre=
>e to not sue, even if its unlikely I'd ever recover anything. Make 'em
>swea=
>t, at least. I'd definitely want to know who authorized that charges be
>fil=
>ed and seek a public apology.
>

Sorry, yesterday's post doubled up?
Tom

PS:Here in Oz you cannot sign away your rights.



01:04 13 January 2013, Tom Claffey wrote:
>Get another lawyer and sue the *******s.
>At the very least the Sheriff needs to be sacked!
>
>
>
>
>
>t 13:54 11 January 2013, wrote:
>>I just read the article. Its pretty scary to know that those charged
with
>>e=
>>nforcing the laws can be so ignorant of them. An initial
misunderstanding
>>i=
>>s forgivable (I guess)but to be locked up overnight is not. I was a cop
>>for=
>> 25 years and its unbelievable that someone didn't step up and say "Its
>>ob=
>>vious this guy is not a terrorist. What are we doing here?" I don't
>think
>>=
>>I'd be as understanding as the glider pilot and I'd certainly wouldn't
>>agre=
>>e to not sue, even if its unlikely I'd ever recover anything. Make 'em
>>swea=
>>t, at least. I'd definitely want to know who authorized that charges be
>>fil=
>>ed and seek a public apology.
>>
>
>

Look under 'Signed under Duress'

Was he Imprissoned?
Was there restraint of his Liberty?
Did the police push the paperwork at him?
Where there threats of personal violence?
Where the policemen armed?
Where they standing over him whilst he was seated?

If the answer is 'Yes' to any of the above, I would say he has a very good
case aganst them. (doubly so it was in the UK.)



At 02:55 13 January 2013, Tom Claffey wrote:
>
>Sorry, yesterday's post doubled up?
>Tom
>
>PS:Here in Oz you cannot sign away your rights.
>
>
>
> 01:04 13 January 2013, Tom Claffey wrote:
>>Get another lawyer and sue the *******s.
>>At the very least the Sheriff needs to be sacked!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>t 13:54 11 January 2013, wrote:
>>>I just read the article. Its pretty scary to know that those charged
>with
>>>e=
>>>nforcing the laws can be so ignorant of them. An initial
>misunderstanding
>>>i=
>>>s forgivable (I guess)but to be locked up overnight is not. I was a cop
>>>for=
>>> 25 years and its unbelievable that someone didn't step up and say
"Its
>>>ob=
>>>vious this guy is not a terrorist. What are we doing here?" I don't
>>think
>>>=
>>>I'd be as understanding as the glider pilot and I'd certainly wouldn't
>>>agre=
>>>e to not sue, even if its unlikely I'd ever recover anything. Make 'em
>>>swea=
>>>t, at least. I'd definitely want to know who authorized that charges be
>>>fil=
>>>ed and seek a public apology.
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

I am a local lawyer and have discussed this matter with several other people who were directly involved.

As a practical matter, I strongly doubt a local jury would have awarded damages based on overzealous protection of a nuclear plant. Also, a local jury might be persuaded to find him guilty of disturbing the peace, which is a pretty vaguely written law. He is a foreign citizen, so even a minor conviction could cause problems if he leaves the country and tries to return to the US, which has become his home. In that case, it is not necessarily bad advice to have him give up his right to sue in exchange for a nolle prosequi..

Also, before I started flying gliders, I had never seen one in the air, and I am well-educated, observant and interested in aviation. Most people would not know what it was at all. Nuclear security personnel have presumably been warned to watch for drone/RC aircraft threats. Also, there is a blanket TFR as mentioned previously which specifically mentions circling near nuclear facilities. I know there is an exception for glider pilots, but only glider pilots or security experts would know about that.

All local law enforcement would know is that some crazy looking flying machine, which was clearly not a regular airplane, flew over the nuclear plant and then started circling nearby.

I hate that this happened, especially to Robin, who is a wonderful person. But I think the best possible outcome - education of the public and of relevant security officials - is happening on a much larger scale than I had anticipated, through the interest of the press.

On Sunday, January 13, 2013 10:54:49 AM UTC-5, James Lee wrote:
> I am a local lawyer and have discussed this matter with several other people who were directly involved. As a practical matter, I strongly doubt a local jury would have awarded damages based on overzealous protection of a nuclear plant. Also, a local jury might be persuaded to find him guilty of disturbing the peace, which is a pretty vaguely written law. He is a foreign citizen, so even a minor conviction could cause problems if he leaves the country and tries to return to the US, which has become his home. In that case, it is not necessarily bad advice to have him give up his right to sue in exchange for a nolle prosequi. Also, before I started flying gliders, I had never seen one in the air, and I am well-educated, observant and interested in aviation. Most people would not know what it was at all. Nuclear security personnel have presumably been warned to watch for drone/RC aircraft threats. Also, there is a blanket TFR as mentioned previously which specifically mentions circling near nuclear facilities. I know there is an exception for glider pilots, but only glider pilots or security experts would know about that. All local law enforcement would know is that some crazy looking flying machine, which was clearly not a regular airplane, flew over the nuclear plant and then started circling nearby. I hate that this happened, especially to Robin, who is a wonderful person. But I think the best possible outcome - education of the public and of relevant security officials - is happening on a much larger scale than I had anticipated, through the interest of the press.

Glad to see that the 'good ole'boy system' is well and alive! I am an engineer and if I f'-up in my work and someone suffers damages, losses or - god forbid - gets hurt, my butt is in the sling! As a local trigger-happy cop, you can play Rambo all you want (i.e. commandeering an airport and preparing to shoot down an aircraft, etc.) and get away with not even a slap on the wrist since the local system protects you. Is that the message here?? That is disgusting!
GM

On 1/13/2013 9:35 AM, GM wrote:
> On Sunday, January 13, 2013 10:54:49 AM UTC-5, James Lee wrote:
>> I am a local lawyer and have discussed this matter with several
>> other people who were directly involved. As a practical matter, I
>> strongly doubt a local jury would have awarded damages based on
>> overzealous protection of a nuclear plant. Also, a local jury might
>> be persuaded to find him guilty of disturbing the peace, which is a
>> pretty vaguely written law. He is a foreign citizen, so even a
>> minor conviction could cause problems if he leaves the country and
>> tries to return to the US, which has become his home. In that case,
>> it is not necessarily bad advice to have him give up his right to
>> sue in exchange for a nolle prosequi. Also, before I started flying
>> gliders, I had never seen one in the air, and I am well-educated,
>> observant and interested in aviation. Most people would not know
>> what it was at all. Nuclear security personnel have presumably been
>> warned to watch for drone/RC aircraft threats. Also, there is a
>> blanket TFR as mentioned previously which specifically mentions
>> circling near nuclear facilities. I know there is an exception for
>> glider pilots, but only glider pilots or security experts would
>> know about that. All local law enforcement would know is that some
>> crazy looking flying machine, which was clearly not a regular
>> airplane, flew over the nuclear plant and then started circling
>> nearby. I hate that this happened, especially to Robin, who is a
>> wonderful person. But I think the best possible outcome - education
>> of the public and of relevant security officials - is happening on
>> a much larger scale than I had anticipated, through the interest of
>> the press.
>
> Glad to see that the 'good ole'boy system' is well and alive! I am an
> engineer and if I f'-up in my work and someone suffers damages,
> losses or - god forbid - gets hurt, my butt is in the sling! As a
> local trigger-happy cop, you can play Rambo all you want (i.e.
> commandeering an airport and preparing to shoot down an aircraft,
> etc.) and get away with not even a slap on the wrist since the local
> system protects you. Is that the message here?? That is disgusting!

As satisfying as retribution might be, James Lee's posting indicates
it's a risky approach. Again, I suggest it's better to make these people
our friends instead of our adversaries, that is why I originally
suggested offering the plant officials and police officers involved free
glider rides, and encourage them to bring their kids or grand kids.

"Good ole' boy system" or not, being part of the "system" by having
these folks understand what we do and the level of threat we present
will prevent a recurrence of this event. It will spread the message of
soaring in a place that obviously needs it, and might even attract a new
member or two as they tell others about the glider rides and how much
they and their kids enjoyed them. The next time a glider is spotted near
the plant, they can turn to the other workers and explain how the pilot
is looking for thermal, instead of calling the cops.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

On Sunday, January 13, 2013 11:08:02 AM UTC-8, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> On 1/13/2013 9:35 AM, GM wrote:
>
> > On Sunday, January 13, 2013 10:54:49 AM UTC-5, James Lee wrote:
>
> >> I am a local lawyer and have discussed this matter with several
>
> >> other people who were directly involved. As a practical matter, I
>
> >> strongly doubt a local jury would have awarded damages based on
>
> >> overzealous protection of a nuclear plant. Also, a local jury might
>
> >> be persuaded to find him guilty of disturbing the peace, which is a
>
> >> pretty vaguely written law. He is a foreign citizen, so even a
>
> >> minor conviction could cause problems if he leaves the country and
>
> >> tries to return to the US, which has become his home. In that case,
>
> >> it is not necessarily bad advice to have him give up his right to
>
> >> sue in exchange for a nolle prosequi. Also, before I started flying
>
> >> gliders, I had never seen one in the air, and I am well-educated,
>
> >> observant and interested in aviation. Most people would not know
>
> >> what it was at all. Nuclear security personnel have presumably been
>
> >> warned to watch for drone/RC aircraft threats. Also, there is a
>
> >> blanket TFR as mentioned previously which specifically mentions
>
> >> circling near nuclear facilities. I know there is an exception for
>
> >> glider pilots, but only glider pilots or security experts would
>
> >> know about that. All local law enforcement would know is that some
>
> >> crazy looking flying machine, which was clearly not a regular
>
> >> airplane, flew over the nuclear plant and then started circling
>
> >> nearby. I hate that this happened, especially to Robin, who is a
>
> >> wonderful person. But I think the best possible outcome - education
>
> >> of the public and of relevant security officials - is happening on
>
> >> a much larger scale than I had anticipated, through the interest of
>
> >> the press.
>
> >
>
> > Glad to see that the 'good ole'boy system' is well and alive! I am an
>
> > engineer and if I f'-up in my work and someone suffers damages,
>
> > losses or - god forbid - gets hurt, my butt is in the sling! As a
>
> > local trigger-happy cop, you can play Rambo all you want (i.e.
>
> > commandeering an airport and preparing to shoot down an aircraft,
>
> > etc.) and get away with not even a slap on the wrist since the local
>
> > system protects you. Is that the message here?? That is disgusting!
>
>
>
> As satisfying as retribution might be, James Lee's posting indicates
>
> it's a risky approach. Again, I suggest it's better to make these people
>
> our friends instead of our adversaries, that is why I originally
>
> suggested offering the plant officials and police officers involved free
>
> glider rides, and encourage them to bring their kids or grand kids.
>
>
>
> "Good ole' boy system" or not, being part of the "system" by having
>
> these folks understand what we do and the level of threat we present
>
> will prevent a recurrence of this event. It will spread the message of
>
> soaring in a place that obviously needs it, and might even attract a new
>
> member or two as they tell others about the glider rides and how much
>
> they and their kids enjoyed them. The next time a glider is spotted near
>
> the plant, they can turn to the other workers and explain how the pilot
>
> is looking for thermal, instead of calling the cops.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
>
> email me)

I wish you stop bringing this suggestion, if nothing else out of respect to Robin. It is pity if he can't sue and win, but will be even more pity if he will be asked to give a free ride to the policeman who arrested him. I wouldn't blame him if he forget to buckle him and proceed to fly inverted...

Ramy

On 1/13/2013 12:02 PM, Ramy wrote:
> On Sunday, January 13, 2013 11:08:02 AM UTC-8, Eric Greenwell wrote:

>>
>> "Good ole' boy system" or not, being part of the "system" by
>> having
>>
>> these folks understand what we do and the level of threat we
>> present
>>
>> will prevent a recurrence of this event. It will spread the message
>> of
>>
>> soaring in a place that obviously needs it, and might even attract
>> a new
>>
>> member or two as they tell others about the glider rides and how
>> much
>>
>> they and their kids enjoyed them. The next time a glider is spotted
>> near
>>
>> the plant, they can turn to the other workers and explain how the
>> pilot
>>
>> is looking for thermal, instead of calling the cops.

>> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us"
>> to
>>
>> email me)
>
> I wish you stop bringing this suggestion, if nothing else out of
> respect to Robin. It is pity if he can't sue and win, but will be
> even more pity if he will be asked to give a free ride to the
> policeman who arrested him. I wouldn't blame him if he forget to
> buckle him and proceed to fly inverted...

I believe this matter is too serious to leave to the people that just
want revenge. What I hope for is a change in behavior and attitude, and
I think that is much more likely to happen if they can learn about the
sport and the people in it. But, if Robin wants to contact me, I'd be
happy to listen to him. My email address is ; full
contact info is on the SSA site.

I don't think anyone should ask Robin to give rides to these people.
That can be done by any competent pilot, but the pilot should be better
than average at "meeting and greeting", so the plant and police people
see our sport in it's best possible light.

Jayne or Frank might be excellent choices to contact the Hartsville
people, or could suggest someone else that could offer the rides in a
compelling fashion. Maybe there is glider pilot from the Hartsville area
that would have some association with the plant/police, and make it
easier for them to accept the idea.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

On Sunday, January 13, 2013 10:07:18 PM UTC, Eric Greenwell wrote:

>
> I believe this matter is too serious to leave to the people that just
>
> want revenge. What I hope for is a change in behavior and attitude, and
>
> I think that is much more likely to happen if they can learn about the
>
> sport and the people in it. But, if Robin wants to contact me, I'd be
>
> happy to listen to him. My email address is ; full
>
> contact info is on the SSA site.

>
> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
>
> email me)

Nothing(s) improves the receptiveness of large organisations to education as well as justified litigation (or the threat of it), formal complaint or press coverage. Otherwise internal pressures lead them to take the path of least resistance which generally runs right over top of the interests of folks like us. IMHO.

John Galloway

Perhaps I "did" a faux pas as I posted creating a new thread. I will repost here. The voice of one, doesn't make a ripple, but the voices of many will make a difference. We had hoped AOPA would have enough motivation and clout to resolve the issue, this has not occurred, thus I turn to you, fellow soaring pilots. There, by the grace of God go I, I believe is the saying. I have flown to Hartsville airport and over that very Nuclear Plant for over 20 years. There may be a Nuclear Plant in your area. Thanks to you Mike Koerner for taking the lead, well written, well said, well done.

Hello all, well I've done a bit of research. I now come to you, as sailplane pilots, to ask your help. I have been told that e mails do not carry weight. The thing that gets their attention is the fact that someone took the time to sit down and compose a letter, on paper and send it. That carries weight. I've been told out local FAA rep is being "held back" .



Please write to our Representative and Senators below to increase the "weight" of the subject in their inbox. Numbers count. (Not as much as 500,000 dollars from an energy company), but it will get some attention. You have the possibility to fly at ANY gliderport and there may be numerous nuclear facilities. We can address this locally and then you, too, might want to write to your local representative to be sure that it works it's way to the desk of Homeland Security.


I'll include my letter, so you have it for reference.


You might mention that you would fly, perhaps, here in our great state of South Carolina, and are concerned that this situation exists.


You may ask - why now and not months ago? We were waiting for AOPA to resolve this at a higher level. It hasn't happened. It may not be on their radar...ie "Barney loose in Darlington Cty."


The addresses follow:


The Honorable Mick Mulvaney
United States House of Representatives
1207 Longworth HOB
Washington, D.C. 20515


The Honorable Tim Scott
United States Senate
113 Hart Senate Office Building
Washington, DC 20510


The Honorable Lindsey Graham
United States Senate
290 Russell Senate Office Building
Washington, DC 20510


January 15, 2013


The Honorable Mick Mulvaney
United States House of Representatives
1207 Longworth HOB
Washington, D.C. 20515


Dear Representative Mulvaney,


Recently a story was published by AOPA (Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association) which explains my reason for writing to you for your assistance. I am co owner of Bermuda High Soaring School and a single engine pilot as well as a glider pilot. I am concerned that the problem addressed in the article and on line via video has not been solved. To understand the full story, please visit the AOPA website: http://www.aopa.org/aircraft/articles/2013/130110secret-no-fly-zone.html?CMP=ADV:1 . In short, one of our pilots was “ordered” to land at Hartsville airport and arrested for “breach of peace” for flying in a “No Fly Zone”. He was held overnight and throughout the next day until he spoke with the FBI and Homeland Security. The FAA, the FBI, and Homeland Security all agreed that the pilot had broken no regulations. Darlington County continued to hold and charge the pilot with breach of peace. It was a 24 hour nightmare.


Bermuda High Soaring School is honored to host the 18 meter National Sailplane Competition this May 2013. We will have pilots competing from as far away as California and Canada. It does not reflect well on our state to be referred to as Mayberry, where Barney is required to carry his bullet in his pocket. I am reaching out for a voice of common sense, so that we may not have to go through this ordeal again. There are numerous Nuclear Stations all over the country. Will pilots everywhere feel that they too, may be arrested for passing over or circling near a Nuclear Station?


We have reached out to our Columbia FSDO office. The flight and arrest occurred in July 2012 and we have no resolution. We would appreciate your help in requesting our local FAA office to address the situation. The airspace above the Robinson Nuclear Plant is available for anyone to fly over, around and through. One point was brought to our attention is the security personal at the power plant could be in violation of Federal Aviation Regulation FAR §91.11 Prohibition on interference with crewmembers. No person may assault, threaten, intimidate, or interfere with a crew- member in the performance of the crewmember’s duties aboard an aircraft being operated.


To address the issue of “Loitering” over a Nuclear Station, I offer the following information which was resolved ten years ago in 2002. The "No Loitering" Rule Flight Near and Over Power Plants, etc. Following the Sept. 11th attacks, the FAA issued NOTAMs restricting "loitering" in the area of power plants, national laboratories and other national security targets. The rules have presented some specific problems for glider pilots. Specifically the rules failed to define "how close is too close" and failed to take into account that "loitering" for a powered aircraft, that is turning in a circle, is actually a mode of flight for gliding. Common Sense - The issue about loitering is the volume of time spent in a given area. In FAA's view, according to our Washington contacts, gliders do not "loiter." That is, circling is a mode of flight for us and is acceptable at or near these facilities. The key is to spend only as much time as needed to gain lift and move on beyond the facility.

The South Carolina Governor’s School for Mathematics and Science is also in your district and we are very happy and proud to have been selected as a “mid semester course facility for teaching six students to fly sailplanes. We just completed the course and were featured on the January 11, 2013 front page of the Lancaster News.

Any help you may offer to resolve this situation is appreciated. We look forward to a successful National Contest in May as well as many enjoyable Soaring days near Hartsville, SC in the future.







Sincerely,







Jayne Ewing Reid




Thank you all for your assistance in this matter. I don't know how to thank those who will take the time to write, as I'll not know who wrote, but just know I appreciate the support.

Warm Regards,




Jayne

JX